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We Like Shooting Double Tap 031 – Roach Coach

Complete show notes here!

Welcome to We Like Shooting’s Double Tap, Episode 31, Tonight we talk about tech, we’ll answer your questions on Dear WLS, we’ll talk about NOT GUNS, and revisit past gear on gear chat revisited. We’ll also watch our resident movie critic review another WLS video! All this and more on tonight’s Double Tap

Episode # 33 This is how we die

Episode # 33 This is how we die

This episode of We Like Shooting –  Double Tap is brought to you by Black Rhino Concealment, Nighthawk Custom, Rand CLP and Rubber Dummies.

Welcome to We Like Shooting’s Double Tap, Episode 33, Tonight we talk about tech, we’ll answer your questions on Dear WLS, we’ll talk about NOT GUNS, and revisit past gear on gear chat revisited. We’ll also watch our resident movie critic review another WLS video!

Our panel tonight, the machine gun moses Aaron Krieger, Jeremy Pozderac,Naked mammal; Nick Lynch, and my name is Shawn Herrin

#Tech news

New Smart gun

# Dear WLS

Nick E

With the fact that most people don’t need a $2000.00 gun they need a $500.00 gun and $1500.00 in training. Gunsite or Thunder ranch or would you recommend another place that would be the same price/length of course.

Frank C

Would you consider changing this segments name from #Dearwls to Dear Flabby? #skinnypeopledontdrinkdietcoke

Kaleb K

Entry level AR-15: Factory built like Ruger AR556 or S&W M&P Sport 2 or/versus Palmetto State assembled gun.

Main purpose: home defense/ self defense, possibly to take to training, and want to be able to upgrade and update later.

Opinions? Any experiences with the entry level guns?

Mike I

AR pistol, Ok I’m trying to decide 7.5 contour wylde 1:7 for $42.99 or a 10.5 m4 contoured 1:7 for 49.99

Michael H

With Jeremy opening his gun range will it be a gay only range just for him and his lovers or will everyone be welcome?

Submit your questions to welikeshooting.com/dearwls

# Not Guns
THIS WEEKS TOPIC:
“how do you think the other cast members are going to die?”

# Gear Chat Revisited:

  • Savage1r – Smith and Wesson 6906 mods
  • Aaron –  Tact-Axe

http://lovewls.com

Find us on ALL the social media and our website

Just a reminder to join a gun related advocacy group (ask the guest about their state) and we always give out the Suicide prevention line, that number is 1 (800) 273-8255

We’re here live every week on Monday and Weds. and on demand every damn day. Go to welikeshooting.com/show to subscribe!

Thanks for listening, and tactical axes for everyone

COMPLETE SHOW NOTES HERE

We Like Shooting Double Tap 33 – This is how we die

Episode # 33 This is how we die

This episode of We Like Shooting –  Double Tap is brought to you by Black Rhino Concealment, Nighthawk Custom, Rand CLP and Rubber Dummies.

Welcome to We Like Shooting’s Double Tap, Episode 33, Tonight we talk about tech, we’ll answer your questions on Dear WLS, we’ll talk about NOT GUNS, and revisit past gear on gear chat revisited. We’ll also watch our resident movie critic review another WLS video!

Our panel tonight, the machine gun moses Aaron Krieger, Jeremy Pozderac,Naked mammal; Nick Lynch, and my name is Shawn Herrin

#Tech news

New Smart gun

# Dear WLS

Nick E

With the fact that most people don’t need a $2000.00 gun they need a $500.00 gun and $1500.00 in training. Gunsite or Thunder ranch or would you recommend another place that would be the same price/length of course.

Frank C

Would you consider changing this segments name from #Dearwls to Dear Flabby? #skinnypeopledontdrinkdietcoke

Kaleb K

Entry level AR-15: Factory built like Ruger AR556 or S&W M&P Sport 2 or/versus Palmetto State assembled gun.

Main purpose: home defense/ self defense, possibly to take to training, and want to be able to upgrade and update later.

Opinions? Any experiences with the entry level guns?

Mike I

AR pistol, Ok I’m trying to decide 7.5 contour wylde 1:7 for $42.99 or a 10.5 m4 contoured 1:7 for 49.99

Michael H

With Jeremy opening his gun range will it be a gay only range just for him and his lovers or will everyone be welcome?

Submit your questions to welikeshooting.com/dearwls

# Not Guns
THIS WEEKS TOPIC:
“how do you think the other cast members are going to die?”

# Gear Chat Revisited:

  • Savage1r – Smith and Wesson 6906 mods
  • Aaron –  Tact-Axe

http://lovewls.com

Find us on ALL the social media and our website

Just a reminder to join a gun related advocacy group (ask the guest about their state) and we always give out the Suicide prevention line, that number is 1 (800) 273-8255

We’re here live every week on Monday and Weds. and on demand every damn day. Go to welikeshooting.com/show to subscribe!

Thanks for listening, and tactical axes for everyone

COMPLETE SHOW NOTES HERE

We Like Shooting Double Tap 037 – Manscaping

Welcome to We Like Shooting’s Double Tap, Episode 35, Tonight we talk about tech, we’ll answer your questions on Dear WLS, we’ll talk about NOT GUNS, and revisit past gear on gear chat revisited. We’ll also watch our resident movie critic review another WLS video!

Source: https://welikeshooting.com/show/double-tap/dt037/

The MASADA, The new Striker Pistol from IWI!

Israel Weapon Industries has been teasing us for awhile now about their upcoming products in 2018. I’m personally drooling over the Tavor 7 but IWI isn’t stopping on that rifle alone.

From IWI

The MASADA family of striker-fired pistols for military, law enforcement and civilian purchase will be available in the first quarter of 2018. 
Ramat HaSharon, Israel, (November 3, 2017) –   Israel Weapon Industries (IWI), an SK Group member – a leader in the production of combat-proven small arms for law enforcement agencies, governments, and armies around the world – is proud to announce the U.S. introduction of the MASADA family of striker-fired pistols for military, law enforcement and civilian purchase.
The MASADA has passive safety mechanisms, including a firing pin block safety and a crisp trigger reset with a built-in trigger safety. It features a fast, easy and safe takedown mechanism with no need to pull the trigger for disassembly. The pistol comes in another variant which utilizes a thumb activated manual safety. The slide comes standard with improved front and rear cocking serrations and enhanced ergonomics with an improved grip angle. The low barrel axis reduces recoil and improves sight recovery. The body is a glass-reinforced polymer frame with a polygonal cold hammer forged barrel in a 1:10RH twist.
Additional features include fully ambidextrous slide stop and magazine release with standard fixed 3-dot tritium illuminated Meprolight night sights. The weight without the magazine is 22.9 ounces (650 g). The MASADA will be available in three colors: OD Green, Black and Flat Dark Earth (FDE).
Casey Flack, CEO of IWI US stated, “This is our first entry into the striker fired pistol market and we are very pleased with the results. Having a completely ambidextrous system, coupled with IWI’s famous performance, will make this a serious contender for civilian and government customers.”

The MASADA is entering a well contested field of striker fired polymer pistols but if their success with the Tavor rifles against the AR saturated market is any indication of their drive to succeed with the new pistol they will do just fine.

Is it SHOT Show time yet?

We Like Shooting 219 – United Stets

Complete show notes here!

Welcome to the We Like Shooting Show, episode 219. Tonight we will talk about Snag mag, sterling 302, Ruger P85, Cash Cannon, Etymotic electronic ear pro, The Hank Strange Situation, Who moved my freedom and more!

 

We Like Shooting Double Tap 036 – Jeremys Girlfriend

Welcome to We Like Shooting’s Double Tap, Episode 35, Tonight we talk about tech, we’ll answer your questions on Dear WLS, we’ll talk about NOT GUNS, and revisit past gear on gear chat revisited. We’ll also watch our resident movie critic review another WLS video!

Source: https://welikeshooting.com/show/double-tap/dt036/

We Like Shooting 218 – Fluffy

Welcome to the We Like Shooting Show, episode 218. Tonight we will talk about Ruger P-85, IraqVeteran8888, Vertx, Ryker, Gear and Gun Reviews and more!

Complete show notes here

We Like Shooting Double Tap 034 – Nameless

Welcome to We Like Shooting’s Double Tap, Episode 34, Tonight we talk tech, we’ll talk about pistol caliber carbines with our crew and some of the product experts, we’ll talk about NOT GUNS. We’ll also watch our resident movie critic review another WLS video! 

Complete show notes here

We Like Shooting 220 – Asparagus

Complete show notes here!

Welcome to the We Like Shooting show, Episode 220 – tonight we’ll talk about 30 carbine, Inforce, Blue Alpha Gear, Highjak86 and more!

We Like Shooting Double Tap 035 – Wookie Sex Slave

Welcome to We Like Shooting’s Double Tap, Episode 35, Tonight we talk about tech, we’ll answer your questions on Dear WLS, we’ll talk about NOT GUNS, and revisit past gear on gear chat revisited. We’ll also watch our resident movie critic review another WLS video!

Source: https://welikeshooting.com/show/double-tap/dt035/

Gear Review: Midwest Industries SCAR SOCOM Handguard

My Personal SCAR17s, now with MI SOCOM and more FDE Shades than ever! Photo Credit. Jack Clemons

From Jack Clemons

In 2004 the United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) solicited an upgraded modular assault rifle system through the SCAR Program (Special Operations Forces Combat Assault Rifle). The winner of the program was FN Herstal and their rifle holds the title SCAR.

The Mk16 and Mk17 were brought operational with US Forces in 2009 and are fast approaching a decade of service.

FNH, capitalizing on their win with SOCOM, commercialized the SCAR with the SCAR16s and SCAR17s systems, built minus select fire and with 16″ barrels. The SCAR now serves as a service rifle in over 20 nations and has a massive popular following commercially in the US and worldwide. It’s an impressive weapon system with a well developed reputation for reliability and endurance.

However behind the scenes the wheels are always turning in PIP’s or Product Improvement Programs.

The SCAR was designed in 2004 but fielded in 2009 with five years of modern development time in between and eight years more post fielding with US Forces and commercial release.

During that time both government solicited and private aftermarket PIP’s have given us a vibrant aftermarket for the SCAR. One of the most notable was in 2010, SOCOM stopped procuring the SCAR16/Mk16 variant in favor of having a new lower receiver, bolt carrier, and barrel developed for the more favored Mk17.

SOCOM (rightly so IMO) figured that the legacy 5.56mm weapon systems in inventory were mission capable and as such the Mk16 didn’t offer a capability the HK416, M4A1, Mk12, and Mk18 couldn’t cover… the Mk17 was the rifle to invest in and PIP’s should and did revolve around the SCAR17 platform to give SOCOM and the rest of the SCAR’s user base the rifles they needed.

Commercially the SCAR16 is more popular though I recently saw numbers that suggest a 4:1 favoring of the SCAR17. While anecdotal, my own experience fits that pattern with multiple close friends owning SCAR17s rifles and most who have SCAR16s rifles own both 16s & 17s. AR’s are still largely favored in 5.56.

Me personally… I will own a both a 17s and a 16s shortly, but my preference is the 17. Chosen along the same logical lines that SOCOM used the SCAR17s is the one I would keep as my “One Rifle” in the ever popular hypothetical ‘if you could only have one gun’ scenario.

But let us return to the topic of PIP’s and leave a SCAR review for the future.

I covered how government PIP’s work briefly. The end users request an update, change, or addition and the requisite company roles it out for installation across the platforms per the request. Magpul’s SCAR Safety is smaller example in addition the various Mk17 modularity options seen in the poster above, all of them that are changes from the original Mk17 are the result of a PIP.

Internal PIP’s within the company can come in two forms. The first, we don’t as often notice, are subtle design changes and improvements. The shape of a selector switch or gas block. The change in material, fit, or finish on a piece or multiple pieces. Small design upgrades for the purpose of making the system more durable, reliable, easier to manufacture, and more cost effective as production and use continue. Companies do this continuously. The second and more noticeable are advertised generational improvements. The product has been revised, redesigned, and evolved enough for the company to announce the updates as an entirely new product with the previous one as legacy. The Glock Gen5 and Smith & Wesson M&P2.0 are good examples.

The final type are third party commercial PIP’s and this is how we develop a thriving aftermarket. Companies see needs or perceived needs and develop products to fit. These help keep products up with emerging technologies, tactics, techniques, and procedures. Not every development is useful or widely adopted but so many variations are tried and can be tried that product improvement can and does happen very rapidly.

Grips, triggers, stocks, sights, safeties…

And Handguard Rails.

Midwest Industries SCAR SOCOM Handguard

Back in May the results of a NSWC-Crane study found that of the newly developed competing mounting systems, Magpul’s M-LOK and VLTOR’s Keymod, that M-LOK exhibited better overall characteristics. While both were improvements over the legacy MIL-STD-1913 Picatinny rails M-LOK exhibited enough of an advantage that SOCOM adopted it moving forward. The US Military as a whole is following the lead of SOCOM and this can be seen in the new M110A1, the first weapon system to sport M-LOK over Picatinny as standard.

Fun Fact: Midwest Industries handguards were a part of the USSOCOM test, along with Aero Precision and Seekins.

With M-LOK chosen as SOCOM’s Gold Standard companies went full bore into production. Even BCM who had long been a KeyMod supporter just released the MCMR.

Midwest Industries, having had their M-LOK emerge victorious from the fires, has since gone gangbusters developing and fitting a myriad of firearms. AR’s, HK’s (MP5 review here), IWI’s Galil ACE and Tavor, CZ Scorpion…

And the FN SCARs

Midwest Industries has 16 handguards available for the SCAR. They are not new to upgrading the platform with their standard Picatinny, SSR, and standard KeyMod and M-LOK extensions.

SCAR17s with Picatinny rail extension

The SOCOM series (4 in total) are the latest in the lineup and differ by lowering the profile of the forward 12 o’clock rail closer to the barrel instead of paralleling the top receiver rail, this allows a DBAL or equivalent laser aiming solution reduced offset from the barrel. This shorter SOCOM rail also lightens the design by 3.5 oz over the legacy.

The SOCOM adds 4.75 inches of space with a 4 slot picatinny rail at 12 o’clock forward of the front sight. 2 M-LOK slots each at 3, 6, and 9 o’clock forward of the gas block. 3 M-LOK slots replace the 6 o’clock under barrel rail. 2 single M-LOK slots go on in place of the stock polymer picatinny rails at 3 and 9 o’clock and one has a machined QD swivel mount, end user placed left or right. Perfect to keep my 2-Point Vicker’s Blue Force Gear Sling on the rifle and with less necessary additional hardware. The portion directly beneath the 12 o’clock picatinny rail is machined into a straight tube allowing removal of the piston for cleaning and servicing without removal of the handguard. Along the entire length, approximately every half M-LOK slot, Midwest Industries added small oblong machine cuts that increase the available griping surface area.

One M-LOK picatinny rail section comes with the SOCOM Handguard allowing immediate attachment of at least one of your picatinny accessories. My BCM Mod 3 short vertical grip in my case.

Adding the SOCOM to the SCAR17s has several immediate effects. Griping the rifle becomes much more comfortable, especially for AR platform shooters accustomed to more handguard real estate. The rifles forward profile is more svelte and streamlined with the absence of rails. A c-clamp grip becomes much easier. The continuous lower portion extending around the gas block allows for grips forward of the receiver not possible otherwise.

While I don’t shoot with my support arm fully extended my most comfortable support hand position would put my index and middle fingers firmly grabbing the gas block, less than optimal…

Bringing my hand further back onto the receiver wasn’t an unworkable solution however anything mounted on either picatinny rail had the potential to interfere. The MI SOCOM simplifies that and doesn’t force me to compete for real estate or compromise where I want to place mission essential equipment for best control access.

The SCAR is light but front heavy in its layout and initially the MI SOCOM compounded that. Live fire though the control advantage of having my hands ideally placed mitigated the weight shift completely.

In the categories of increased ergonomics, improved modular capability, and aesthetics the MI SOCOM for the SCAR gets my full recommendation.

Installation

On Midwest Industries Webpage and on the directions that come with the handguard is a very important line

-Gunsmith Installation Recommended

Why?

Tools

You need a torque wrench with a T25 bit and able to be set at 62 in/lbs. Ideally one adjustable from 35 in/lbs to 62 in/lbs or more by single lb increments. There are several SCAR specific torque wrenches available on the market but a gunsmith or armorer is likely to have them if you do not feel like making the purchase.

In addition to the torque wrench and bit, a heat gun is useful. Failing that a high BTU blow dryer will work. The screws holding the bottom rail onto the rifle are threadlocked and heat will help loosen them.

A proper hex wrench/allen wrench is needed to remove the side rails also.

You will be removing the SCAR’s barrel. This is why the 62 in/lb is essential. Remounting the barrel requires proper torque.

Midwest Industries provides a full installation video

 

As an armorer myself I took the opportunity to justify buying more tools.

The install is not a hard process but you must use the correct tools and follow the directions. Failure to do so will result in an unsafe gun, broken parts, or both.

Conclusion

I stated it above. The MI SOCOM Handguard took my primary rifle and made significant improvements to ergonomics and accessory management. I highly recommend the upgrade.

What to look for in a crossbow arrow

Sneaking through the palmettos, in stealth mode, I could hear hogs feeding ahead of me. The lip smacking and social snorts gave their location away, without them knowing it. I had my TenPoint Carbon Phantom RCX in my left hand and my arrow in my right. When I finally got a glimpse of black hog rooting in front of me, I slid my arrow onto the rail and seated it in place to shoot.

Two hogs worked in and out of cover, and I watched over my bow until one came into a shooting lane. I quietly clicked off the safety, leveled my crosshair on the pig’s shoulder, and squeezed the trigger. The pig let out a hair-raising squeal as it took off through the dense vegetation. I could hear it bouncing off trees and cover; then all fell silent. Tracking wasn’t difficult, as I had a complete pass-through with my arrow, leaving a significant blood trail.

My outfitter had stressed over and over, to shoot the hog in the shoulder to get to the vitals and have a quick, killing shot. It is advice we often hear the opposite for—never aim where our broadhead and arrow will meet up with bone.

I’m here to tell you the shot was fatal and we recovered the arrow. I was shooting an Easton Full Metal Jacket, knowing it has more weight than a standard carbon arrow, which equates to more kinetic energy and hitting power. The arrow drove the broadhead through the hog, and the aluminum jacket helped, by increasing viscosity and reducing friction. It was the perfect arrow for shooting a solid animal through the shoulder blades.

There are times when different arrows play a significant role in success. On a Nebraska whitetail hunt, I opted to use my TenPoint Pro Elite carbon crossbow arrow. I knew I’d have a shot between 25 and 40 yards and wanted to gain every speed advantage I could get. Whitetails are notorious for jumping the string and knowing I’d be lining up the vitals, without shooting through bone, I wanted my fastest option.

After three days of sitting, I finally had a nice 10-point buck wander into range. With his head down feeding at 38 yards, I placed my crosshair for a heart shot and slowly squeezed the trigger. The buck must have heard the shot and ducked quickly, causing the arrow to hit him in the spine and kill him instantly. Although it isn’t the optimal shot or one that a crossbow hunter would deliberately take, it was fatal and a quick kill. Using a lightweight, carbon arrow made the difference in harvesting the buck despite shooting over it.

When fractions of a second count, speed becomes important. The two hunting scenarios provide a rationale for different arrow selections for different hunts or animals.

The Carbon Phantom RCX spits arrows at 385 fps, making it ideal for any game. Whitetails are nervous by nature and anyone how enjoys archery has likely experienced a deer jumping the string. As the name indicated, the Phantom is quiet, and on the hog hunt, the quarry never heard it coming.

The Pro Elite carbon fiber arrows are 20-inches long with a 22/64ths diameter, fletched slightly offset with Q21 vanes. The arrows are fitted with a 68-grain brass insert and TenPoint’s neon yellow Superbrite Omni-Nock. Pro Elite shafts are inspected for straightness to within .003 and hand sorted for weight tolerance to within two grains per dozen, with the standard-weight of 425-grains.

Blue Force Gear Micro TKN


Every day carry used to mean gun, wallet, phone, knife keys, and whatever tokens people carried on an almost daily basis. Since the founding of the immensely searchable term EDC, an entire industry has popped up. Everything under the sun carries the EDC label, from key chains to belts. Sometimes it’s a crap concept, other times it’s fairly interesting, and a decent step forward. The Blue Force Gear Micro Trauma Kit Now seems to fall into the latter.

Blue Force Gear is most famous for producing the Vickers Sling, the Ten-Speed Mag pouches, and the standard TKN. I’ve owned a TKN for well over a year and it’s my go to IFAK I keep with the ‘adventuring’ gear. The Micro TKN was an attempt to provide a minimalist first aid kit for everyday carry, general adventuring, and more discreet tactical use. The Micro TKN comes with options for either Belt or MOLLE mounting. You can also purchase the kit at three different levels, one is empty, one contains the basic kit and the last is the advanced kit. Each containing a different level of medical supplies.

An EDC Medical Kit?

I went with the belt mounted basic kit. I wanted it to remain as small as possible and the advanced kit is certainly better suited for mounting to a vest than a belt for EDC. I’ve been carrying this as a member of my EDC whenever possible, with some clothing options in certain situations making it difficult.


Some folks look at me a bit odd when I talk about carrying a med kit every day. It seems extreme to some people. However, it seems more necessary than a firearm when I look back and think about it. As a civilian I’ve only used a gun once to defend myself, and I didn’t even have to fire a shot.


I have been in several situations where a Med kit would have been extremely valuable to have. Traveling home on leave once I came to serious accident with a rollover and an ejected driver. Medical services weren’t on scene, but two other people pulled over to help. One was a nurse who began immediate lifesaving treatment, but she had to improvise with what she had to stop the bleeding.

I can say the same when my dad put a nail from a nail gun through his hand, there wasn’t anything close to a medical kit within 25 miles. I could go on and on, I’ve cut myself to the bone once, I’ve found my way down a hill or two the hard way, and so on and so forth. It took me 24 years to figure out maybe some basic medical supplies could be a lifesaver.

If I’m carrying a gun for the one in a million violent situation then carrying a medical kit for violent situations, car crashes and everyday ‘oops’ moments doesn’t seem so extreme.

What’s in a kit
The basic kit includes the following gear,
          1) Hemostatic dressing for wound packing/clotting (1 included)
          2) 4″ Emergency Trauma Dressing (1 included)
          3) 9″ Medical Grade Easy Tape (6 included)
          4) Tourni-Kwik Compression Tourniquet (1 included)
          5) Heavy Duty Medical Gloves (1 pair of large sized gloves)


The gear included is all extremely high quality and designed to patch up traumatic wounds. You can also add some minimal gear to the kit. I’ve included some basic bandages and antibacterial cream. (I’m a dad these are all necessary for a 6 yo.) Too much more than this is likely going to start sticking out and making itself more apparent. Although it’s not a gun, and it’s not like you have to conceal it.

The idea behind the Micro TKN is to divide the kit into two main pieces. The first is the main pouch that attaches to the belt, and covers the kit. The left and right sides are open and the pouch is elastic. The second portion is the slider. The slider is what carries the medical gear, and is designed to be extracted from the kit when needed. The slider has two handles that are easy to grab. Grab either one of these handles and you pull the slider from the main kit. It’s that easy.


This is one of the more genius ideas of the kit. Like the standard TKN you can remove the supplies and work where possible. Instead of having to try and retrieve medical gear from a static location you can rip the kit out and lay it wherever it’s easiest to reach. Back in my Marine Corps days a lot of us went to belt mounting our IFAKs for this very purpose, we could remove the entire belt and put the IFAK where it was needed to treat wounds. Blue Force Gear just simplified that by making the kit accessible from every angle.


Carrying the Kit
The kit itself is quite square and block like, it gives a Glock grip a run for its money. All the basic gear is really crammed in there, and it doesn’t provide the smallest overall package. Wearing it strongside like a gun isn’t an option in my opinion because it sticks out so far. It’s also awkward to try and to reach with the opposite hand.

The best and most effective way I’ve found to carry it is in an appendix style position. It conceals a lot easier, and makes it possible for me to reach the grips and pull the slider with either hand. It allows instant access to the kit, and if you carry appendix already, just carry on your opposite side. I carry this kit, my CZ P09, and a spare mag on my Daltech belt without issue, and without compromising concealment too much.

Doesn’t that get heavy?

No, it gets comforting.

 

Gun Review: Zenith Z5RS, The Everyman MP5

Z-5RS in A3 SBR configuration w/ H&K F Stock

Since it’s introduction in 1964 the H&K MP5 has been arguably the most successful pistol caliber carbine. With over 100 variants produced, several international licensed manufacturers, and adopted by 40 nations for their police, military, and special operations forces, the little German space magic 9mm has a prestigious history that has stretched into 2017 with no sign of being lost to history yet.

Several companies have tried to retire the old warhorse with an updated design but as of this writing no one has successfully dethroned the MP5 en mass. Even H&K in 1999 with the UMP tried to usurp their own well aged weapon and didn’t succeed. The simple, smooth, rugged, and reliable little carbine is holding its own in the modern era. Plus it has a character and class all its own from its well earned reputation.

Author at a Teufelshund Tactical MP5 operators course running the Z5RS

The MP5 entered my life through a strange array of events. There had always been a draw to the gun but from a practical standpoint the modern PCC field held other very good options and my “need” for a small operational defensive carbine was well looked after by my LWRCi M6. The MP5 platform was firmly on the “wants” list on my acquisition schedule.

Then my plans to attend a carbine class fell through and I suddenly had quite a bit of disposable income in close proximity to Brownell’s.

Enter Zenith.

The Virginia based company had entered into a partnership with MKE of Turkey, one of the most well known and prolific licensed manufactures of the MP5 and many other H&K designed firearms for the Turkish Military, Police, and export. That Zenith/MKE partnership has resulted in a boon for the MP5 market because they were able to do two things that H&K was not doing.

They were bringing the widest variety of true to form MP5’s to the market built on H&K machines and tooling with high grade true to spec parts… And they were doing so at about $1,000 less than H&K.

As of my purchase and this writing H&K had only one new for sale variant. The SP5K, a modernized SP89 which was itself only imported for 5 years. That one H&K variant then had to be modified to add anything more genuine (*cough “paddle release” *cough cough) or muzzle threading, tri-lug muzzle, etc.

Zenith on the other hand was making their full MP5 “carbine” line-up available.

  • Z-5 with 16″ barrel and A2 stock
  • Z-5RS (Reverse Stretch) is the classic 8.9″ barreled MP5 configured as a pistol or factory SBR and comes with a tri-lug and 1/2×28 threaded muzzle.
  • Z-5P is the MP5K with a tri-lug and 1/2×28 threaded muzzle. Pistol
  • Z-5K is the shortest dropping the tri-lug and threaded end from the 5P

And they all had the paddle release from the factory, something I wanted. Zenith has expanded those four options considerably since I acquired mine.

Sidenote: The Z-5RS is not a true “reverse stretch” MP5 as purists like to note. The RS was for inventory control designation as the true RS MP5’s are K models with the traditionally longer receiver. Zenith does not do that variant.

Now back to Brownell’s

MSR Pistol. Zenith/MKE Z5RS MP5

Like I said I wandered in kind of bummed about my class and with some extra spending cash and ended up leaving with the Z5RS being shipped back to Michigan to await my arrival. To top it off I found another course, this one was MP5 specialty and I signed up.

I considered the H&K and Zenith side by side for a long time when I decided an MP5 was coming home, I could’ve done either. The traditional configuration won my buy as it was evident both weapons were of excellent quality.

For anyone reading saying “No man! Dakota Tactical is the way to go.” Those exceptional guns were not available for impulse buying on Brownell’s shelf… just means I need another gun. Plus this Z-5 rocks, keep reading.

The Z-RS

I won’t waste your time going over the specs. They’re right here for those interested. We’ll see you folks back here in a minute.

I have, as of this writing, approximately 5,000 rounds through my Z-5RS. I set a grueling training pace to try and bring myself up to speed on the the little unknown pistol carbine as I only had about 9 weeks to prep for my upcoming course.

A case and a half of ammo went down the barrel prior to June, two and a half cases in June, and a case since.

What have I learned about the Z-5RS in that time?

Reliability

I can count the number of stoppages I’ve had with the Zenith on one hand. Three were operator error, once each for three different shooters all riding the charging handle and shorting the bolt. One was an ammunition failure on a round of unknown origin (range pick up) and the last one I failed to seat the magazine, again operator error.

The Z-5 has not caused or experienced a failure of its own yet. I’m keeping an eye on the extractor spring, the fastest wearing part, but everything still checks out. That extractor spring is incredibly easy to fix once it gets worn too, I can keep this thing maintained and running nearly effortlessly.

Round counts between cleaning have gone above 1,000 with no noticeable shift in performance. You pull the trigger and the Z-5 shoots

Accuracy

The Z-5RS far exceeded the stated accuracy standard of 3″ at 25 meters that H&K lists for the MP5 with iron sights. With a red dot sight a 2-3″ group was achievable firing supported at about 60 meters.

People love to put arbitrary limits on pistol calibers but in reality they’re effective at far greater distances than most think. It was this education that placed the Zenith from the fun classic collectible it started as into an operational part of my every day carry.

 

Breakdown and Maintenance

The Zenith uses the traditional push pin design from H&K. One rear pin, (two for K models) one front pin, and, if you choose, the handguard pin all come out and the gun comes apart.

The tailcap, brace, or stock comes off.

The lower and trigger group come off the receiver.

The bolt carrier and recoil spring come out the back and the handguard strips off.

Learning to maintain at TT MP5 course

The recoil spring, carrier, bolt head, and firing pin assembly all separate with a few partial rotations leaving you with everything you need to clean neatly laid out. Stash your pins in a safe spot since they are not captive. Zenith provides spares just in case. Cleaning with the supplied cleaning kit, your favorite cleaner, and a cloth is simple.

Operation, Upgrades, and Customization

The MP5 certainly is a dated platform, it’s 53 years old and has not received the modernization attention that the AR15 has for two reasons.

First, it isn’t a military standard service weapon. It is a more specialist weapon system that the Global War on Terror (GWOT) didn’t demand nearly as much evolution from.

Secondly the MP5 hasn’t been huge on the U.S. Market (with only brief import by H&K for the available models and high prices) therefore aftermarket development was largely in Europe and little demand in the U.S. beyond the agencies who had them inventoried. Most such agencies saw little use the in cost of chasing upgrades. Just look at the number of patrol rifles in squad cars running iron sights and 20 round magazines to get a sense or your average LEO’s organizational momentum towards firearm optimization.

That particular aspect of market demand is changing and companies like SB Tactical, Midwest Industries, and Dakota Tactical are working the leading edge of that demand to bring the MP5 on par with other 21st century systems. The customization and optimization factors are on in full now with braces/stocks, modular handguards, optics, and more.

Operating the MP5 in the modern day however is reminiscent of operating an AK platform. There are just certain features it lacks due to design. The most notable are no last round bolt hold open and consequently no bolt release.

How much value you put in that ergonomic feature set varies from shooter to shooter. Some consider a non issue, others say its an inferior archaic blunder and vastly out performed by newer designs.

I fall into more the non issue category.

It’s been my experience and observation that someone who is proficient with the MP5 (or any platform) can consistently out perform someone who is inexperienced but has an ergonomically “superior” design. The operator is always the key to the systems efficiency and the Z-5RS is still a world class system and will likely remain so, along with the AR15 and AK47. For decades to come.

I’m an AR guy by training. The Marine Corps taught me that weapon system first and transitioning to the MP5 takes some shift in methodology.

Here are the key differences

  • Safety Manipulation: The grip and safety location seem to have been made with Andre the Giant as the operator. Breaking your grip to reach the thumb safety is normal on the Z-5RS and the detent is mighty. Those shooters wanting a smooth 90 degree throw, this is not it, however it is much easier than the AK. I find the technique similar to breaking your grip for a pistol mag change, just a slight rotation of the wrist.
  • Charging Handle: The Charging Handle and cocking tube are at a 45 degree angle on the left side over top the barrel, this is a preferred location for me. Pulling the handle back and rotating it up into its slot is the only bolt lock method on the weapon. Manually locking the bolt is often part of the reload method and then “HK Slapping” to release and seat the bolt.
  • Magazine Manipulation: The Z-5RS and MP5 are not a drop free magazine. While they don’t “rock to lock” like the FAL or AK they are meant to be removed manually from the gun, not through gravity. This action is easy to couple with paddle magazine release although there is a push button on the receiver too. It would take a might large hand to reach that button though from a traditional grip.I’ve seen three methods to run a reload on these weapons.
    The first is strip, feed, wrack… you pull empty magazine, seat the full magazine, then wrack the charging back and release. This method is quick but the possibility of having the magazine not seat on the closed bolt makes it sub par.
    The second is strip, lock, feed, rock… you pull the empty magazine, lock the bolt open, then seat the full magazine with no closed bolt pressure thus making it easy, finally you rock the locked charging handle down (HK Slap!) and the bolt feeds the fresh round. This is the method taught to me by Haley Strategic’s James Williamson and is also consistent with stoppage clearances.
    The third is lock, strip, feed, rock… you lock the bolt open, pull the empty magazine, seat the full magazine, and rock the charging handle down. This I found to be the smoothest flow on economy of motion since your hand flows back and down the weapon, then up and forward. However it is not consistent motion flow with stoppage clearance.
    Choose wisely, practice.

Beyond that the ergonomics and manipulations are similar enough to the AR, SCAR, and other modern platforms to have very significant cross over.

Zenith Z5RS with MI Handguard and SB Tactical brace, now factory options

Conclusion

I’ve never had a firearm I didn’t really intend to buy so firmly plant itself into my everyday routine. After training with the gun all summer and coming to appreciate the realistic capabilities it’s a regular as my vehicle, home protection, and work gun. Shooting it beside H&K’s, DT’s, Sigs, and CZs illustrated the Zenith Z-5RS’s quality, form, and function in spades and it is assuredly worth your consideration if a pistol caliber carbine is on your get list.

MP5’s might not be for everyone

But this one is definitely for me.